Sunday, February 19, 2012

Logic/Reason.

You know, I consider myself a logical thinker. A reasoner.

I really do. I mean, I've always been a sort of intellectual person...I question everything, and search for answers to things I don't understand. I want to know the how and why of everything.

I'm that annoying person who always says something like, "There must be a logical explanation." It's pretty common, I suppose, for people to rely quite a bit on reason to see themselves through situations.

Most people, however, when they think logically, come up with the exact opposite "answers" to mine. 

So let's start with a couple of definitions, just to make sure we're on the same page.

Logic:
noun
1.     the science that investigates the principles governing correct or reliable  inference.

Reason:
noun
1.     the mental powers concerned with forming conclusions, judgments, or inferences.
2.     sound judgment; good sense; sanity.   

It's safe to say the two terms are intertwined. It's hard to have logic without reason, or reason without logic. I feel that I generally use both, especially when making important decisions.


That being said, I chose at the age of seventeen to believe in something greater than myself. I chose to believe that there are forces at work that I can't even begin to comprehend...or, really, a force. And that force is God. Yahweh. Immanuel.


There are many who would say that, if I had been thinking logically, there is no way I would've come to the conclusion that there is, in fact, a God. It doesn't make any sense to them. Well, it does to me, and here's why:

The world sucks. Humanity sucks. People will argue with me, but I will not budge on this. We lie, we cheat, we steal, we murder, we envy, we belittle, we abuse, we destroy. Every. Single. Person. Now, we all have our vices. Some may have a hard time coping with lust or adultery, while others can't seem to get out of hatred's grip. We don't all always do the same bad things. But all you have to do is turn on the television to realize that the world we live in is a very broken place. Our species is a very broken species.


Why does this make me believe in God? Well, if this world holds no contentment, then there has to be something else. I refuse to believe that we have no purpose in living. That doesn't make any sense to me. If I'm not living for a greater good, then I see no point in living at all. So, when I see all the broken things about myself and about the rest of the world, I infer that there must be something bigger than all the pain and the hurt and the worry and the strife and the hunger. There must be something greater than just me. Salvation has to exist. If not on this world, then another.


This, to me, seems reasonable. It does not seem reasonable to think that there is no God, no good or evil...that we are just here on earth because chance brought us here, and we're just supposed to continue the growth of the species and wait for the world to end in a few thousand years. That is not reasonable. 


I also see no logic or reason in believing that our entire universe was created randomly. Here's an experiment to help prove my point. Fill squeeze bottles with different colors of paint. Now, take those bottles and randomly squeeze and throw paint all over a surface like a canvas or something. Be sure to not look at what you're doing. Just throw the paint everywhere. When you're done, check out your creation. Is there any symmetry? Can you see any sort of picture contained within the design without working too hard? If you really threw the paint around randomly, then no, you can't.


In contrast to this, look at a leaf. A tree. A piece of fruit. A human being. Cut them down the middle (except, probably not literally, in the case of the human being. haha), and...huh? What's that? Oh. Whaddaya know...they're the same on both sides. Now, my logic tells me that this could not possibly have happened randomly. It must have been designed.


Now, obviously, not everything on Earth is symmetrical. But every part of creation is so intricate...everything has an internal system that is extremely complex and at times, difficult to understand. Logically, random activity cannot create such complexity. 


And, anyway, random activity can't come from nothing. There has to have been a beginning somewhere...and tell me, logically--what could've created that beginning?

Now, I am not a scholar. I'm not a genius. I didn't read all this in a book about apologetics or hear it in a podcast from a famous speaker. This is just how my mind works. I decided, at seventeen, that logically, I cannot be the biggest thing about myself. 

I'm not "pushing" my beliefs on anyone. That's not what this is about. I don't want anyone to start arguing with me, trying to make me see their side of things. I just wanted to put this out there, and see if it reaches anyone (I don't even know if anyone reads this thing...but you never know). Now, if someone wants to ask questions and challenge me--please do! Questioning things helps you better understand them, and if I'm stumped, then I'll learn something, too!

This is bigger than me being right. This is about me wanting the world to see the light of Christ--to spend eternity wrapped in His arms. I share my beliefs not to belittle others'...I share them because I want the people I love to experience the joy and peace that I have found.

If I care about someone, then logically, I'll want to spend as much time with them as possible. And, well, eternity is a LONG time. So that would mean that I should do everything in my power to ensure that person's place in eternity.

I mean, it's only reasonable.

 

7 comments:

  1. Absolutely reasonable! Love u so much!

    ReplyDelete
  2. Disclaimer: I mean no ill will, nor do I aim to incite anger. I simply like to discuss ideas with other intelligent people (as you seem to be). I don't mean to try and force any ideas/beliefs. I just like to talk!

    "Why does this make me believe in God? Well, if this world holds no contentment, then there has to be something else. I refuse to believe that we have no purpose in living."

    I'm curious, how did you logically come to this conclusion? I only ask since logic and reason are the subject of this post.

    To me, that is quite a jump, to say that we have no other purpose other than God simply because you believe as such. Life does not need purpose to continue: it is a self replicating machine that we as conscious creatures have dubbed as something unique. This is not necessarily the case, if you look at nature and the universe as a whole.

    Also, on the notion that we are here "randomly": I presume you've heard of the idea that if an infinite number of monkeys were to type on an infinite amount of typewriters, there would be a monkey that would type shakespeare? If you look at the size and scope of the universe, the notion that we are here due to chance isn't all that unreasonable.
    It is nigh impossible to comprehend how large our universe is, even if we discount the idea that it is infinite. Life in any form or fashion has a very small chance of occurring. Let's say if you have a hundred trillion marbles and there is a 0.00000000001% (one in ten trillion) chance of one of the marble being blue, probability dictates there's a good chance around 10 of those marble will be blue. Astronomical odds placed on an astronomical scale aren't all that "random".

    "And, anyway, random activity can't come from nothing. There has to have been a beginning somewhere...and tell me, logically--what could've created that beginning?" In that case, what created God? According to your own logic, there must be something bigger to design him. If there isn't, then the logic does not hold weight.

    Last point: Even putting aside all these points (and the numerous others I can point out if you're in the mood to debate a bit), why is Yahweh the ultimate creator? Why not Odin, or Krishna? Serious question.


    Again, I do not mean to be angry or demeaning. You are wholly entitled to your beliefs, especially if they make you feel better about the world. I only post this because you seem smart and very capable of reading this and responding in a rational, logical manner.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Oh, don't worry! You didn't make me angry.

      Let's see...to answer your first question...You said that life does not need purpose to continue. This is, technically, true. However, I don't believe that the ultimate goal of humanity is simply to "continue." I believe in living a life with meaning. If there is no meaning, no purpose to life, then what's to stop me from killing all the people I dislike? Why don't I just do everything in my power to please myself, and get all the things I want, no matter who I hurt in the process? I know there are people like that, but I would say that the majority of humans try, at the very least, to be nice to one another. So where does this sense of "good" come from? If we are, as you say, merely a "self-replicating machine," then why bother trying to adhere to these standards of "good?" If it's survival of the fittest, as it is in the wild, let's just weed out all the weak, the stupid, etc. I'm not quite cynical enough to believe that any of that is rational.

      On to the next point. I see where you're coming from on this one, because it has been the hardest for me to come to grips with. I will ask you this: If the universe could be infinite, then why is the concept of an infinite God so difficult to grasp? The truth is, it is impossible to understand it. Something with no beginning and no end makes no sense on a rational scale. Yet we know it to be true in other areas, such as mathematics, which leads me to believe that it is not impossible for a deity to also be infinite. An infinite God could easily have created the universe. And as for all the "random" experiments...I honestly don't know how to answer you there. I can only say that I choose to not put stake in those odds, because they seem far-fetched to me. A creator seems to be a more reasonable conclusion. But, like I said before, my logic is different from others'.

      Now, the real question: why Yahweh? To be perfectly frank, I choose him because he has shown himself to me. Before you freak out and say oh, jeez, here we go--another nutjob, let me explain. I don't mean that he showed himself in a physical manifestation. He has shown himself to me through actions. Through prophecy fulfilled. And, I have physically felt his presence. But even putting all of the spiritual stuff aside, I would've chosen Yahweh as the god to follow because he is completely different from all the rest I've come across. He is the only one who requires nothing from you...he loves you the moment you're brought into existence, and before. My God doesn't require that you do works in his name to receive his gift of salvation (although some Christians think he does. they are wrong, from a biblical standpoint). All he requires is that you believe in him. That seems like a pretty sweet deal, if you ask me. (And that part of my belief system is my favorite thing to debate...because so many people, especially other Christians, can't seem to grasp it.)

      I appreciate your questions, because I like to think. If my faith was never challenged, it would never grow. And if you have more of the same type of questions, or if I didn't answer these to your liking, please feel free to ask more. I love this stuff.

      Delete
    2. My comment was too long, so I need to chop it up a few times...


      Awesome! It's good to see someone of faith actually questioning/thinking about their faith. I once read a quote from an Imam that went along the lines of saying "Blind faith is worse than no faith at all", citing that we are more products of our upbringing rather than true "seekers of truth". Not enough people question their belief systems, so this is great :)
      First point: Meaning. You got it right at "technically, there is no meaning". Though you go further to say that the Bible gives you meaning, and that it also drives your morality (a different subject entirely, but we'll delve into that realm).
      While nature gives us no inherent meaning, this does not prevent us humans from creating our own, whether it is through religion, personal belief, or desire to please one's self in whatever way. Meaning is relative, meaning that it is fluid and can change from person to person, time to time. I personally take meaning in life by having fun and living and learning from day to day. Is it futile in the long run? Sure. But I am finite: I stake my "reason" for existance within my lifetime and within my physical realm, the only one that I know for a fact exists.
      You then jumped to morality as a part of meaning. I can see where you're coming from, but meaning does not preclude morality. There are many great people that do acts of charity, yet are atheists (humanists, generally speaking), and there are people who dedicate themselves to a god who kill, rape, and steal, yet are some of the most devout people to their creator as possible.
      Just look at the incarceration rates for Americans. Despite being around 15-20% of the population, a mere one percent are atheists, and only some of them are for violent crimes. You might say these Christians that commit crimes and otherwise don't follow the word of God as "not really Christians", to where I'd point you to the classic No True Scotsman Fallacy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman). Give it a look, it'll make sense.
      Then, you say that without God or an outer moral system, we'd have no reason not to kill people. Tell me, is belief in God literally the only thing that is preventing your from killing random strangers? Is God the only reason that you don't steal a purse that you want? If this is the case, remind me to remind you to go to church lest you try to kill me :P
      Morals come from a variety of sources. Some people need a book to tell them right from wrong. Others follow social conventions (where ideas on politeness and whatnot comes from). And some people take their morals from within. I will not kill because I am aware of the pain and hurt that it brings, not only to the killed person and their families, but to me the killer and my family. I treasure human life, regardless of race, religion, creed, etc, because not only has society (family, friends, etc, nothing inherently religious) told me that murder is unacceptable, but common sense tells me that murder is wrong.
      Also, what is right or wrong? There is no such thing as black in white in the spectrum or ethics, and I mean absolutely no such thing. "Thou Shalt Not Kill." Yet would you kill if your best friend was about to be raped, right in front of you? Would your moral code, stemmed straight from the bible, prevent you from defending your friend or family member? Your response would likely first go to your own instincts, your own personal experiences.
      And as for the survival of the fittest thing: that concept doesn't deal at all with moral decisions. Survival of the fittest is a biology term that describes the process of how nature generally works itself out in a competitive, resource-scarce environment. Most of us do not live in a scarce environment or in any real competition in order to survive.

      Delete
    3. Part 2:
      Infinite God: So God is now infinite. Where do you get this information? How do you know the nature of god, and how he is now infinite? The thing about the term "infinite" is that it is more an abstract thought, not anything concrete that we can pin down with anything else other than math. You'll have to be more specific on what you mean by an infinite God.
      Though even if we can make the assumption that god is infinite, this is a bit of a cop out. It is essentially saying the same as "I don't know, it's too complex for me to understand." which in and of itself is a normal, acceptable answer. I don't know everything about the ins and outs of the chemistry behind geology, genetics, and half lives, and I will admit it openly.
      However, to say he is infinite implies that no one at all can understand and comprehend him, as if he is in our eyes random and chaotic in nature. We can't know the nature of God, for then we would not need faith, for we'd have proof and substance for his existence. Though this presents an interesting thought: if we can't know the nature of god, as to us he seems "infinite" and whatnot, how exactly does he affect us in a finite, material way? If I get in a car accident and live, it is a miracle of God. If I die, God works in mysterious ways, it was part of the plan, etc. If you take the deity out of the equation, things just happen out of coincidence.

      Which brings me to my next point: prophecies fulfilled! I'm curious, which ones have been fulfilled? I'd take a look at this little page on self fulfilling prophecies, just to get you started: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-fulfilling_prophecy.
      Most prophecies in the bible (and anything that gives any idea as to what the future is based on spiritual or psychic visions) are broad enough that any event can fulfill them over time, if you want them to. Just take a look at all the times bible prophecies have been considered to be complete, and how we have yet to have the world end, or any of those things.
      The same works for personal prophecies and wishes. If I want a bike, I can pray for it. I can pray and pray. I'll ask my mom, I'll do extra chores, I'll exert myself in every way possible to get that bike. Then, mom suddenly buys me a bike. God gave me the bike, my prayers were answered!
      Oooor I pushed the circumstances to lend myself to receiving a bike. Or it was my birthday, and a bike was a good present. Or sheer coincidence occurred, as are able to buy their kids toys at random times. Regardless, prophecies tend to fall flat once you really analyze them for what they are.

      And I'd disagree that God wants nothing from you. If that were the case, we'd all go to heaven and he'd embrace us with loving arms, regardless of beliefs, actions, etc. Everyone from Mother Teresa to Hitler would be just as loved and accepted as everyone else.
      I would assume this is not the case, otherwise religion would have no purpose whatsoever. So he does require something out of you, and whatever that is changes from sect to sect. If you are to figure out this idea, I'd go to MANY legitimate, educated biblical scholars to get a definitive answer, as many pastors or ministers are often blinded by their parents/congregations past interpretations on the Bible, which may or may not be correct. It doesn't matter whether you believe something is correct in terms of concrete actions: it is the validity of your thought process and your evidence that will support your refutation.

      Delete
    4. Final Part:

      And, I'd ask, does God love those he sends to hell? you could say that it is the actions of people that forces them to send themselves to hell, but this is not the case. God created everything: he created the rainbows, the butterflies, the tree of knowledge, the fiery pits of hell, even Satan himself. Even counting in the idea that people have free will does not negate the fact that the Bible's God, in his infinite power, would rather flood the earth and kill thousands of people, including children, as opposed to just revealing himself and saying "Hey, for reals, I'm the only god, and here is concrete proof. Stop doing that, or you'll go to hell. I love you, btw."

      Also, I can guarantee you every other very religious person from every religion has had the exact same experiences as you in terms of presence of God. They can not describe it either, except to say that it was a "divine presence". Anecdotes are very flimsy in terms of logical proof of anything, just a warning. They're fine for personal beliefs, but in arguing for logic in religion, not so much :P

      Ooh, forgot a point. On your point of "I don't put stakes in those odds", it doesn't matter if you put any credence in them personally. It is math, it is science. It simply is. If I suddenly deemed I don't believe in gravity anymore, I'm not going to suddenly fly off the face of the earth. The theories, the ideas still are real: I will simply just ignore the ideas behind them. I can understand not knowing the ins and outs of a complex idea, though the beauty of it all is that it can eventually be explained and proven, bit by bit, if you were to take the time and brain power to do so.

      These are hard questions, and I don't expect you to immediately know all the answers. I can illuminate any questions you may have on any of these subjects in person or facebook, if you can guess who I am. I'm a lot better at explaining things point by point in person :P I think you know who I am, but as I don't know you all that well, that could potentially not be the case. Regardless, I too love this subject, as I once thought in a similar fashion to you and was on your side of the argument. I look forward to your rebuttal!

      Delete
  3. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete